Educating The New Supply Chain Workforce Via Social Media with Justin Poulin | E. 112

Episode Introduction 

Justin explains why the key to a successful podcast is consistency, how the pandemic masked issues with supply chain workforce shortages, and how silos in healthcare hold people – and organizations – back. He also explains why competition makes people fearful of social media, provides key tips to getting started and explains why ‘’chasing the money’’ will always leave you dissatisfied.

Show Topics

• Consistency is the key to successful podcasting
• Bring your whole self to an organization
• The supply chain workforce shortage came in under the radar
• Healthcare supply chain needs more mentorship
• Tailoring content to your target audience
• Competition creates a fear of social media 
• Getting started online
• Leadership tip: ‘’Promote, promote, promote’’

02:56 Consistency is the key to successful podcasting

Justin said creating a regular schedule is the most important factor for long-term success.

‘’….podcasting, so much of it is a soft skill. I could give you little tips and pointers, but the most important thing about podcasting, and you’re doing a great job with this, it’s just being consistent. Making sure that you are putting content out on a regular schedule that people know what to expect. I see a lot of startup podcasts and they come out with a lot of gusto, and they do a bunch for about two or three months. And then, all of a sudden, there’s a four-month gap. And those ones never really take off. I’ve always told everybody who wants to get involved and do it, “Hey, nobody’s trying to own this space. It’s a fun, creative outlet. But one of the things you have to do to be good with it is make sure that you are constantly putting out consistent content.” You could do a podcast once a quarter, as long as you deliver it once a quarter on a schedule that people can expect…..It’s like the TV series that comes to this great cliffhanging end of season two, and then they don’t get renewed. And you’re just left going, “Why? Why did you do this to me?” And so, yeah, that’s the experience. And so, if you’re doing podcast, just stick with it.’’

11:24 Bring your whole self to an organization

Justin said healthcare can be siloed but merging skills and interests benefits every organization. 

‘’…what a convergence of my passion to do this radio show podcasting, my clinical background as a nurse, and then this entrepreneurial sales side. It’s all just merged into this role and what this company is. And who would’ve thought all of that would’ve intersected, what I was doing? And I saw it as something separate. So I’d also encourage people to consider their diverse interests and experiences. And not try to partition or segment them but, actually, bring them to the table and bring their whole self to their employer, or help them create their dream job for themselves. It’s really important that I think a lot of times we’re taught diversify your revenue streams, you hear that, so it’s all segmented. And you think about healthcare and it’s very siloed. But we actually do that to ourselves. We silo our skills and interests, instead of merging them into what makes us a unique human being, which is, ultimately, how we can bring the most tremendous value to any organization that we’re involved in.’’

14:28 The supply chain workforce shortage came in under the radar

Justin explained the impact of the pandemic on staffing shortages. 

‘’I feel like the supply chain shortage, or workforce shortage, is sneaky. It came in under the radar. I’m sure people in supply chain might’ve been aware that it could be become an issue, but I don’t think it was as transparent as the one that everybody talked about with nursing. We could have planned better, for sure, but we knew it was coming. I think some of the things that had happened with supply chain was really the emergence of strategic sourcing and these other roles that, at one point, when you said supply chain, in a lot of ways, you meant logistics or materials. And maybe a little bit of contracting and purchasing. But what has happened since the Affordable Care Act and value-based purchasing is we’ve now really expanded on the skillset that’s required, where you can take your career.. But then, obviously, I think the fact that we didn’t have enough people with enough experience in growing into these advanced roles in supply chain really came to a head when we hit the pandemic. Because, prior to that, it was pretty easy to say, “We’re doing okay.” Because we’re consolidating agreements, we’re looking for discounts based on volume and economies of scale, really. And I think once the supply and demand and the supply chain itself got disrupted, I think it really exposed something that was inherently there that we dodged dealing with for a really long time.’’

18:19 Healthcare supply chain needs more mentorship

Justin explained why time constraints are affecting leadership’s ability to nurture talent. 

‘’I definitely think there needs to be more mentorship, but I think there’s plenty of willing mentors out there. The problem is, with the constraints that we’re under, you’re talking about taking somebody and their time that is incredibly valuable right now. So I feel like we’re a little upside down on that. I think there’s a lot of willing mentors that are in leadership positions. But it’s about nurturing the talent and that takes a lot of time away. And, honestly, if you’re already short on talent, then you’re in a position where you’re already lifting up, just with your own personal efforts. So how does the senior staff in a supply chain carve out that time right now to really mentor and nurture the individuals that are coming onto their team? So I think they can still do it, but I think they need a lot of augmented resources to help. And if you just even look at standardized training, like we’ve got the CMRP through ARM and there are some other programs that are out there, but, by and large, most of the training is institutional. And some of it needs to be tailored to the healthcare organization because everybody does things a little bit different. They use different ERPs. And so you can’t just put a standard training package together. It requires, I think, the new blood coming in to be quite motivated, and also able to self-educate and be self-motivated to educate. And so, for that to really happen, you’ve got to inspire them. And you’ve got to give them resources that not only give them information, but that also give them encouragement.’’

21:26 Tailoring content to your target audience

Justin explained how social media enables people to find valuable content. 

‘’… …So I think the answer to the question that you just asked me is individualized. And I think this is one of the keys of social media. What it does enable people to do is to find the content that they find valuable. And as a matter of fact, LinkedIn, in the way that they continue to do developments in their platform, is geared around connecting people with noted experts that are talking about the things that somebody wants to be learning about. They’re very focused on that. And they also throttle… They don’t want big media blasts. They don’t want content in a commodity sense, where you just hit everybody and hit them with a ton. They don’t want the users of the LinkedIn platform to get washed out. They want them to be pulled in and find value for being on their platform because it helps them grow professionally. That is different than the approach for Facebook. However, I still believe in all forms of social media having a purpose. But you do have to tailor the content to that targeted audience, and which platform they’re on, and maybe the reasons that they’re on that platform. So I prefer LinkedIn for a lot of reasons. But, mostly, I believe in their philosophy about connecting people to the resources that they are looking for and/or needing.’’

25:20 Competition creates a fear of social media 

Justin said collaboration and transparency can help to transform healthcare.

‘’We talk a lot about transparency, collaboration. There are a lot of themes that people incorporate into their vision for how to transform healthcare, not just in the supply chain but across the board. But, yet, we say those things, but a lot of what happens is we live in a very competitive environment. And I believe that we haven’t really taught our culture here in the United States how to work collaboratively and competitively with a certain amount of respect. And I think a lot of people are fearful of social media because of that reason. But if we actually learned how to do what you just said, where we could converse even with our competitors on certain topics… Because guess what? Your competitors, because you’re bringing different value props to the table, it’s not a one size fits all. It’s different perspectives on how to solve similar problems. And those perspectives match up with different cultures in different ways. And I think we fail to recognize that it’s not you’re everything to everybody. You’re hopefully, and every good business owner knows this, you’re hopefully aligning yourself with a good customer for your company so that they have a good experience and that only builds your reputation. I think we absolutely need to do a better job, not even just in healthcare,  but in general, of how can we come to the same table with our competitors in a professional manner and both benefit?’’

30:34 Getting started online

Justin said getting involved is about more than being a content consumer. 

‘’… the best way to do it is to follow some hashtags, like #HealthcareSupplyChain, HealthcarePurchasing. Just look for some of those. Maybe find some companies that you’ve done business with, colleagues, and connect with them. But, essentially, curate the content that you want to see on LinkedIn. And when you find something that you have maybe some thoughts on, the hardest thing is creating content. It takes effort, it takes thought. But the one thing you can do to share your knowledge, you can share somebody else’s post on a topic that you’re either experienced or passionate about. Or that you know, “Hey, this was a great conversation that so-and-so had on this podcast.” Or maybe somebody just does a general post, a couple of paragraphs on an experience they had. You could highlight that by sharing it out and saying, “Really good insights here.” Something that I have always noticed that people often overlook, you don’t have to tell the whole story. You don’t have to be the single authority. But it definitely helps when you share somebody else’s content with one or two lines that include your own insights. And especially if you think it’s something that most people miss. Just get other people thinking by seeing your post. That’s the best way to get involved, not just be a content consumer. ‘’

34:16 Leadership tip: ‘’Promote, promote, promote’’

Justin said a servant leadership mentality is common among successful leaders.

‘’I don’t know if this is really a big aha lesson, and I might give you two, but a lot of times people are worried about elevating the people that work for them or that they’re mentoring. And I just think, time and time again, it pays huge dividends to elevate those that are under you. They’re never going to replace you. You’re just going to become more valuable. And you never know where they’re going to go in their career. So I feel like in leadership, it’s just promote, promote, promote, and develop the people that are around you. You never know when you’re going to need them. So, sometimes, there’s just that hesitancy. I think all the great leaders are never worried about being replaced. And, sometimes, on the sales side, that can be adding staff to the team, or maybe it’s you’re adding a CRM, and so you know all of the functions of your role are now going to be documented. And you’re like, “Oh, that could make it easier for them to bring somebody else in… You’re never going to have a shortage of career opportunities if you approach it that way. You just won’t. So I think that’s a common amongst really excellent leaders. That servant leadership mentality I think is really important.’’

Show Links

Connect with Lisa Miller on LinkedIn

Connect with Jim Cagliostro on LinkedIn

Connect with Justin Poulin on LinkedIn

Check out VIE Healthcare and SpendMend 

You’ll Also Hear: 

Justin’s career history, via nursing and a podcast on Boston Celtics: ‘’This is in 2005. Podcasting, that term was coined in the same year. I didn’t even know it was a term. I called it a toll-free, live, call-in webcast, specifically for Celtics fans. I had people calling in from Australia and Italy, all over the world. And wound up credentialing my way into the locker room with credentialed access to the Boston Celtics. I was the first person from new media to get in there.’’

Tackling the workforce shortage in the healthcare supply chain: ‘’And then you’re also competing with other industries, which is another difficult aspect, as people don’t really find the healthcare supply chain as a destination career. They find supply chain as a destination career. They go to school for it. But not always for healthcare. And a lot of times, the wages are just more competitive in other industries. And so we do find that there’s that new talent that’s being trained isn’t necessarily landing in healthcare roles, unfortunately. And it’s certainly something that we need to tackle.’’

Why the healthcare supply chain is limited on social media: ‘’And I think there’s some fundamental reasons for it too, which is to say people don’t necessarily want to share their strategies for fear of losing their negotiating leverage. So I think the healthcare supply chain leader, in general, is positioned differently than maybe a clinician in how they would have a discussion on LinkedIn.’’

Don’t chase the money: ‘’But chasing the money, I think, will almost always leave you somewhat dissatisfied. So align your organizational strategies with your professional goals. As long as it’s not simply money, you’ll win every single time.’’

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Episode Transcript 

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Justin (00:00): When you find something that you have maybe some thoughts on, the hardest thing is creating content. It takes effort, it takes thought. But the one thing you can do to share your knowledge, you can share somebody else’s post on a topic that you’re either experienced or passionate about. Or that you know, “Hey, this is a great conversation that so-and-so had on this podcast.” Or maybe somebody just does a general post, a couple of paragraphs on an experience they had. You could highlight that by sharing it out and saying, “Really good insights here.” Something that I have always noticed that people often overlook, you don’t have to tell the whole story. You don’t have to be the single authority. But it definitely helps when you share somebody else’s content with one or two lines that include your own insights. And especially if you think it’s something that most people miss. Speaker (00:56): Welcome to the Healthcare Leadership Experience Podcast, hosted by Lisa Miller and Jim Cagliostro. Lisa is the founder of VIE Healthcare Consulting and now managing director at SpendMend. Lisa and her team has generated over $1 billion in financial improvements for VIE’s clients since 1999. Since 2007, Jim has been a registered nurse working in critical care, perioperative services, and outpatient settings at nationally recognized medical facilities across three states. Jim (01:35): Hi, this is Jim Cagliostro, and you’re listening to the Healthcare Leadership Experience. Today’s guest is Justin Poulin, Vice President of Sales at Green Security LLC, and the CEO of Healthcare HQ Media. He has over 20 years of experience in the medical surgical industry, both as a registered nurse, I always like that connection with another registered nurse, and Regional Vice President of Sales and Operations. He’s also the host of several podcasts under that umbrella, Healthcare HQ Media, including Beyond Clean about sterile processing, First Case, regarding the OR power supply about purchasing and supply chain and transmission control, which is focused on infection control. Justin, I feel like we could have a conversation, just you giving me tips on how to be a better podcast host. I love what you’re doing in the podcast space, but we are going to touch on that. I’m looking forward today to focusing on what you’ve said, the untapped potential of social media when it comes to educating the new supply chain workforce. And I love it. So thank you for being on the show today. Justin (02:36): Oh, my pleasure. And, honestly, podcasting, so much of it is a soft skill. I could give you little tips and pointers, but the most important thing about podcasting, and you’re doing a great job with this, it’s just being consistent. Making sure that you are putting content out on a regular schedule that people know what to expect. I see a lot of startup podcasts and they come out with a lot of gusto, and they do a bunch for about two or three months. And then, all of a sudden, there’s a four-month gap. And those ones never really take off. I’ve always told everybody who wants to get involved and do it, “Hey, nobody’s trying to own this space. It’s a fun, creative outlet. But one of the things you have to do to be good with it is make sure that you are constantly putting out consistent content.” You could do a podcast once a quarter, as long as you deliver it once a quarter on a schedule that people can expect. Jim (03:31): Sure. I like that. Because there’s been some, I’m like, “I love this. Give me more.” And then it drops off. And then it’s like, “Oh.” You just wanted that consistency. That’s a great point. Justin (03:39): It’s like the TV series that comes to this great cliffhanging end of season two, and then they don’t get renewed. And you’re just left going, “Why? Why did you do this to me?” And so, yeah, that’s the experience. And so, if you’re doing podcast, just stick with it. But it is a labor of love, and you know that. And the thing that you have to love is meeting new people and learning new things, and being willing to not be the expert in the room and enjoy that. And if that’s something that… I’d say anybody out there who has never even considered a podcast, if that sounds like you, you should consider starting a podcast. Jim (04:21): I love it. Thank you, Justin. I know that’s going to carry over to some of this other social media conversation we have, the importance of consistency. Before we even jump into that, I always like to give our audience an idea of your background, your education, your training, how you got to where you are today to what you’re doing. Not just the podcast, but definitely in terms of the podcast. Tell us a little bit of your story in a few minutes here. Give us a summary of how you got here. Justin (04:45): Yeah, there’s always a lot of bumps in the road. And mine started my senior year. I worked in the local grocery store. I wound up getting fired, my senior year. Probably a lot of it had to do with being almost 18. And I’d worked there for quite a few years. I started working as a paperboy. I’ve been working since I was 11 years old. I love to work. I liked that job quite a lot too. But people get weird that last year of high school. If you’re a parent out there, and you have anybody who has graduated high school, you know exactly what I’m talking about. You worry about your kids extensively during that stretch. (05:23): So, anyway, I didn’t know what I was going to do. And I had a friend whose parents moved to another town, and he needed somebody to live with for the last two months of the school year, and so he wound up staying with us. And I didn’t really have any plans for the summer. I knew I needed to make some money. I had a full scholarship in chemical engineering to the University of Maine that I was going to be heading off to. And my buddy had worked at a camp for disabled children and adults the prior summer. And he had an uncle with no arms who was a camper that was then a counselor and was then a spokesman for the society that ran the camp. And so he said, “We should check and see if they’ve got any openings.” (06:04): So they did have some openings in the kitchen. And so I went off and spent the summer around the kids and adults. And I really enjoyed it. Most everybody else that was in the kitchen went back to their cabin. But I spent the time in between with my buddy in his cabin, and hanging out with the campers, and really immersing myself in that experience. Which was fortuitous because when I got to college, I started, and as you know, most engineering programs try to weed you out. I was in chemical engineering. I got a 10 on my first chemistry test. Believe me, I was studying like crazy. Class average was a 30, it’s not as bad as it sounds. (06:43): But it definitely tested, “Is this really what I want to be doing with my life?” And I really did not enjoy doing constant calculations. So I said, “You know what? I really enjoyed what I did at camp. Next summer, I’m going to go back as a counselor. I’ll figure out if I can handle the personal care. And if I can, then I’ll do nursing. So I’m going to switch to nursing. If I don’t like it, I know I like being around kids, maybe I’ll go into education.” This was an interesting convergence of my careers because I did wind up making dean’s list the next year, graduated from the nursing program. And then worked as a nurse in a variety of capacities for many years. (07:18): One job I was doing was as a third-party benefits administrator, doing medical necessity reviews, basically determining whether or not reimbursement, they should be admitted, advising on maybe some considerations for their treatment. And while I did that, I started a blog on the Boston Celtics. What I quickly found was I don’t like to write as much as I like to talk, and you’re probably picking up on that already, as a podcaster. So I said, “Well, what I’m going to do is, instead of blogging, I really want to start a podcast.” So I started a podcast covering my favorite sports team, the Boston Celtics. Within six months, I made it a live broadcast. This is in 2005. Podcasting, that term was coined in the same year. I didn’t even know it was a term. I called it a toll-free, live, call-in webcast, specifically for Celtics fans. I had people calling in from Australia and Italy, all over the world. And wound up credentialing my way into the locker room with credentialed access to the Boston Celtics. I was the first person from new media to get in there. (08:22): And then I covered the team. And the year they won the championship in ’08, I wound up being featured in a small, low budget documentary that was highlighting their run from the trade for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett to a championship. And so I’ve got a nice documentary that I can go back and look on, on one of the most fun times in my life. And I moonlighted that while I was working as a nurse. And so what I quickly decided was, with all of this networking, I should really give… I’m an entrepreneur, clearly. I didn’t realize it at the time. But that I built this from nothing pointed me in that direction. I said, “You know what? I think maybe I should try my hand at medical sales.” (09:02): So I wound up moving from Maine to Pennsylvania, did a horrible year in mortgages. And then wound up, after a year, got a job with a company that did instrument repair. And they were very focused on education. I was the only nurse on the team. At my first year anniversary, I presented the education to the owner of the company. They said, “Hey, you did a great job. You’re approved to do it.” And a month later, I got a call because their booth that they had set up for in-booth education at AORN, Pfiedler had taken over issuing the continuing education credits. And they said, “You have to be a nurse to deliver education on the floor at AORN.” They’d already spent thousands on the booth. So they came to me and said, “Hey, Justin, you’re our only option. I know you just got approved to do this a month ago, but what do you think about doing this on a national stage at our booth?” So I said, “Absolutely, I want to do that.” (09:56): I grew, from that point on, doing a lot of education nationally and regionally for chapters. I was the education chair for our local ARM Chapter, CPAC, in Philadelphia. And, eventually, I got recruited by a former VP of US sales at that company to do a startup called Green Security. And that was when I got involved in the entrepreneurial world. And he was a great mentor and said, “Hey, Justin, you’re an entrepreneur now. So while we’re getting this startup going, you’re going to want to do other things and supplement your income, et cetera.” So in 2017, I launched a podcast called Beyond Clean with my business partner, Hank Balch. And that went so well over the next three years that we decided to launch the other three brands that you mentioned, based on that model. And so I continue in my capacity with Green Security, and have just continued to watch these podcast businesses grow. And that’s my story. I don’t know if I did it in two minutes, but- Jim (10:57): No, you’re good, you’re good. And- Justin (11:00): Pretty wild ride. Jim (11:01): Yeah, and I love to hear your story, and many other guests that we’ve had, sometimes, someone has that thought or dream in their mind and they charge right after it and they go. And other times, it’s a combination of experiences. And, sometimes, they just fall into this role, and their experience has supported them and prepared them, unknowingly, prepared them for that role that they eventually fill. So I love that story. I love that experience. Justin (11:24): Yeah, what a convergence of my passion to do this radio show podcasting, my clinical background as a nurse, and then this entrepreneurial sales side. It’s all just merged into this role and what this company is. And who would’ve thought all of that would’ve intersected, what I was doing? And I saw it as something separate. So I’d also encourage people to consider their diverse interests and experiences. And not try to partition or segment them but, actually, bring them to the table and bring their whole self to their employer, or help them create their dream job for themselves. It’s really important that I think a lot of times we’re taught diversify your revenue streams, you hear that, so it’s all segmented. And you think about healthcare and it’s very siloed. But we actually do that to ourselves. We silo our skills and interests, instead of merging them into what makes us a unique human being, which is, ultimately, how we can bring the most tremendous value to any organization that we’re involved in. Jim (12:30): Yeah, I love that. So we tend to silo, but we need to look to merge the skills and the experiences and the passions. That’s awesome. I will say probably my favorite part of your experience that you shared is the Boston Celtics and following them. And I’m a New York guy, so Boston, my family knows we can’t root for Boston. But what an experience. And offline, maybe online at the end, I’m going to own a prediction for the finals and see what happens, but we’ll talk about that later. Justin (12:55): Oh yeah, I’m all about it. Jim (12:56): So we talk about healthcare worker shortage. I know a lot of times when I get into that conversation, I’m thinking nurses at the bedside short. But a number of other roles that are essential to the basic function of providing patient care, there’s also a worker shortage. Specifically, we talk about supply chain workforce, supply chain leadership. You’ve highlighted a lack of experience as a major issue right now. Can you shed some more light on the current state of affairs, in terms of the workforce shortage with the supply chain right now? Major issue. Is it up and coming? Is it something that’s been going on? What are your thoughts on that? Justin (13:33): I think it’s something that’s really been ongoing, but I think there’s a couple of factors in it. And what I want to say is we already know about the nursing shortage and everybody’s pretty clear. But what’s funny is, when I was going to nursing school in the ’90s, we talked about it all the time. We had this total influx of new nurses back in the ’70s, and that was because it was an emerging career, basically. And there was some specialization, but there was just an increase in demand and need. And they said, “We’re going to hit a point, right around 2020, where this population of nurses is going to, ultimately, get ready to retire.” And so we knew it, but I don’t know that we ever, as a healthcare industry, really tackled it proactively. And I use this to say it’s very different than what happened in supply chain. (14:28): I feel like the supply chain shortage, or workforce shortage, is sneaky. It came in under the radar. I’m sure people in supply chain might’ve been aware that it could be become an issue, but I don’t think it was as transparent as the one that everybody talked about with nursing. We could have planned better, for sure, but we knew it was coming. I think some of the things that had happened with supply chain was really the emergence of strategic sourcing and these other roles that, at one point, when you said supply chain, in a lot of ways, you meant logistics or materials. And maybe a little bit of contracting and purchasing. But what has happened since the Accountable Care Act and value-based purchasing is we’ve now really expanded on the skillset that’s required, where you can take your career. (15:19): I got started in sterile processing. I’ve even seen a similar arc in terms of the value of sterile processing since the Accountable Care Act in 2010. The attention that has been placed on sterile processing since then has grown tremendously. I felt like supply chain was on the heels of that in a lot of ways. But then, obviously, I think the fact that we didn’t have enough people with enough experience in growing into these advanced roles in supply chain really came to a head when we hit the pandemic. Because, prior to that, it was pretty easy to say, “We’re doing okay.” Because we’re consolidating agreements, we’re looking for discounts based on volume and economies of scale, really. And I think once the supply and demand and the supply chain itself got disrupted, I think it really exposed something that was inherently there that we dodged dealing with for a really long time. (16:23): And so when I say there’s a challenge in staffing and training and educating, I think that shortage was always there. And then you’re also competing with other industries, which is another difficult aspect, is people don’t really find the healthcare supply chain as a destination career. They find supply chain as a destination career. They go to school for it. But not always for healthcare. And a lot of times, the wages are just more competitive in other industries. And so we do find that there’s that new talent that’s being trained isn’t necessarily landing in healthcare roles, unfortunately. And it’s certainly something that we need to tackle. Jim (17:05): So I’m sure you’ve seen it where people have come into the healthcare supply chain space, but then moving on to something else, even if it wasn’t their intention. Justin (17:13): Yeah, or to industry. There’s just a lot of times, again, just the limitations on wage and pay scale. I think, a lot of times, we lose some of our really A+ talent because they realize that, like LeBron, they can take their talents to Miami and go in a championship and improve their career aspirations. I think that happens a lot too. It’s unfortunate for healthcare. It’s an unfortunate reality with the financial pressures. The reason I would say that I think it may be ongoing is where’s the money going to from to address this? Because we’re already under some really significant constraints. Jim (17:56): Yeah. Yeah, so you’ve touched on some of the more traditional or historical approaches to gaining that experience, the education, the training, definitely addressing staffing. Is there anything else that you would include in terms of those who are preparing to be a part of that supply chain leadership? Mentorship, is that something big that you’ve seen, or you think there needs to be more mentorship? Justin (18:19): I definitely think there needs to be more mentorship, but I think there’s plenty of willing mentors out there. The problem is, with the constraints that we’re under, you’re talking about taking somebody and their time that is incredibly valuable right now. So I feel like we’re a little upside down on that. I think there’s a lot of willing mentors that are in leadership positions. But it’s about nurturing the talent and that takes a lot of time away. And, honestly, if you’re already short on talent, then you’re in a position where you’re already lifting up, just with your own personal efforts. So how does the senior staff in a supply chain carve out that time right now to really mentor and nurture the individuals that are coming onto their team? So I think they can still do it, but I think they need a lot of augmented resources to help. (19:13): And if you just even look at standardized training, like we’ve got the CMRP through ARM and there are some other programs that are out there, but, by and large, most of the training is institutional. And some of it needs to be tailored to the healthcare organization because everybody does things a little bit different. They use different ERPs. And so you can’t just put a standard training package together. It requires, I think, the new blood coming in to be quite motivated, and also able to self-educate and be self-motivated to educate. And so, for that to really happen, you’ve got to inspire them. And you’ve got to give them resources that not only give them information, but that also give them encouragement. Jim (19:59): That’s a great point. Hold that thought because I do want to now, as we jump into the social media, I think the motivation and the self-learning is huge. (20:07): If you’re just tuning in, you’re listening to the Healthcare Leadership Experience, and I’m your host, Jim Cagliostro. This show is sponsored by VIE Healthcare Consulting, a SpendMend company, which provides leading-edge financial and operational consulting for hospitals, healthcare institutions, and other providers of patient care. Since 1999, VIE has been a recognized leader in healthcare costs, hospital purchased services, healthcare benchmarking, supply chain management, and performance improvement. You can learn more about VIE Healthcare Consulting at viehealthcare.com. (20:40): So, Justin, going on that, jumping on that idea of the motivation and the idea of self-learning, social media, I believe, I’m convinced, and I know you believe it more than I do, there’s so much potential. That untapped potential that exists within social media to not only educate but prepare our next supply chain professionals in healthcare. I imagine there’s multiple avenues within social media. You would include podcasts, among other things, I’m assuming. Justin (21:08): I would. Jim (21:09): But how do you determine the best resources or media? I think this is something I struggle, even in other areas of life, is the variety. Is a mile wide and an inch deep better? Or is it, “Hey, let’s find that one or two good resources and really stick to those”? What are your thoughts on that approach? Justin (21:26): Yeah, so I’m actually going to spin that upside down a little bit. And what I’m going to say is it has a lot more to do with dialogue and engagement and discussion. So I think the answer to the question that you just asked me is individualized. And I think this is one of the keys of social media. What it does enable people to do is to find the content that they find valuable. And as a matter of fact, LinkedIn, in the way that they continue to do developments in their platform, is geared around connecting people with noted experts that are talking about the things that somebody wants to be learning about. They’re very focused on that. And they also throttle… They don’t want big media blasts. They don’t want content in a commodity sense, where you just hit everybody and hit them with a ton. They don’t want the users of the LinkedIn platform to get washed out. They want them to be pulled in and find value for being on their platform because it helps them grow professionally. (22:38): That is different than the approach for Facebook. However, I still believe in all forms of social media having a purpose. But you do have to tailor the content to that targeted audience, and which platform they’re on, and maybe the reasons that they’re on that platform. So I prefer LinkedIn for a lot of reasons. But, mostly, I believe in their philosophy about connecting people to the resources that they are looking for and/or needing. So whether it’s an inch deep and a mile wide or it’s a smaller number, I think it really depends. It’s different depending on the person. Some people like to know a little bit about a lot of things, and some people like to be an expert in one area. So I think the content that’s available to them on social media, it could really be either. (23:23): But I think the most important thing to really grow people professionally is to have thoughtful, engaging, and professionally challenging conversations and ideas. And that’s where I think… And, honestly, this is looking at some of the other brands that we have built. I feel like we’re really not there yet with the healthcare supply chain on LinkedIn. And I think there’s some fundamental reasons for it too, which is to say people don’t necessarily want to share their strategies for fear of losing their negotiating leverage. So I think the healthcare supply chain leader, in general, is positioned differently than maybe a clinician in how they would have a discussion on LinkedIn. (24:05): But I do think that it is most valuable to be part of an engaging discussion. So some conversations get that moving, or some topics will get that moving. But it’s really driven by individual passion for a particular topic, what they want to learn. And then getting the people who have the experience to share some of their experiences to help guide people with less. And that’s what LinkedIn’s there for. And I hope that we’re helping create more dialogue on that platform for healthcare supply chain professionals because that’s the goal. Jim (24:41): I love the point about the dialogue, the passion, this thoughtful engaging idea exchange that you talked about. And I heard someone, I’ve heard it multiple times, but we have this idea of, “Well, that’s the competitor, so I really don’t want to engage, or I don’t want to offer any…” Versus, “Hey, we can collaborate.” And, yes, like you mentioned, we have to be strategic. We have to not show our entire hand or however you want to put it. But having that exchange and saying, “Hey, you’re not the enemy, but we want to improve healthcare, so let’s exchange those ideas. And we can learn from one another without really stepping into each other’s territories.” I love everything you said there. Justin (25:20): I got to add to some… It’s a really important point that you emphasize something that I said, but you added something to the conversation that’s really, really important. We talk a lot about transparency, collaboration. There are a lot of themes that people incorporate into their vision for how to transform healthcare, not just in the supply chain but across the board. But, yet, we say those things, but a lot of what happens is we live in a very competitive environment. And I believe that we haven’t really taught our culture here in the United States how to work collaboratively and competitively with a certain amount of respect. (26:06): And I think a lot of people are fearful of social media because of that reason. But if we actually learned how to do what you just said, where we could converse even with our competitors on certain topics… Because guess what? Your competitors, because you’re bringing different value props to the table, it’s not a one size fits all. It’s different perspectives on how to solve similar problems. And those perspectives match up with different cultures in different ways. And I think we fail to recognize that it’s not you’re everything to everybody. You’re hopefully, and every good business owner knows this, you’re hopefully aligning yourself with a good customer for your company so that they have a good experience and that only builds your reputation. (26:54): I think we absolutely need to do a better job, not even just in healthcare, but in general, of how can we come to the same table with our competitors in a professional manner and both benefit? Because I’ll tell you, I’ve had some emerging technologies, we’ll highlight them on the podcast. But there are some emerging technologies where they only have maybe one or two competitors. And they spend so much time positioning against each other that they don’t realize how valuable it is for the two of them to be talking about their solution and that modality to just gain recognition for disruptive technology. They’re as important to each other. (27:37): They’re more, I would say that in often many cases, they’re more important to each other, and their mutual growth, by getting people to have some options around an emerging technology. When there’s options, they’re validating that each other are viable. When you’re standing alone and owning the market and pushing your one or two competitors down and out because yours is better, sometimes, that can actually hurt your ability to grow. And I think we don’t always understand that in the intense competitive marketplace that we’ve created. Jim (28:12): That’s such a healthy perspective. And the world of healthcare is so complex, and I love that you pointed out the culture. Maybe this solution works for our hospital and health system because it fits our culture better. And there’s someone I follow on LinkedIn, and she’s very focused on the rural hospitals. And that might be different answers than in the metropolitan area. So everything you said, I think that’s such a healthy perspective to approach any area, even podcasting. Oh, someone’s only got 30 minutes. Do you listen to Justin’s podcast or Jim’s? Listen to both. You make it work. Justin (28:43): You know what? So that’s a great point. We had a bunch of people pop up with podcasts. At first, when we started Beyond Clean, we were the only podcast in sterile processing. There’s been a number of them. As a matter of fact, some of our best vendor partners have their own podcasts and we still collaborate. And that’s exactly it. We never wanted to look at it like, “Oh no, we can be the only podcast.” Absolutely not. (29:10): What we wanted to be, back to the first thing I told you as we were kicking this all off, we wanted to be the most consistent podcast. We wanted to make sure that we were going to stand the test of time, that we were there in the very beginning and we’re going to be there in the end. And so if other podcasts do that too, all it does is help us transform how people receive information and are educated in our various industries. And so we’ve always welcomed additional podcasts because we believe in the medium. And the medium is meant to be a free market medium for everybody to find the one that suits them. And, hopefully, that means they listen to lots of podcasts and there’s room for everybody. Jim (29:50): That’s great. And moving everything in a better direction towards a better place, specifically in terms of healthcare. I know we’re running out of time, but I do want to ask you this question because I want to flip to the other side. What about healthcare professionals who want to pass on their knowledge, they have a desire to pass on the knowledge to the next generation workforce, but they have absolutely no experience, even no desire to get involved in social media? Even if it’s not starting a podcast, but posting regularly on LinkedIn, or doing collaborative articles on LinkedIn, or a new and growing thing. What would you say? How should they get involved? Or how can they at least start to get their feet wet in terms of passing on their knowledge and experience on social media or through social media? Justin (30:34): Yeah, the best way to do it is to follow some hashtags, like #HealthcareSupplyChain, #HealthcarePurchasing. Just look for some of those. Maybe find some companies that you’ve done business with, colleagues, and connect with them. But, essentially, curate the content that you want to see on LinkedIn. And when you find something that you have maybe some thoughts on, the hardest thing is creating content. It takes effort, it takes thought. But the one thing you can do to share your knowledge, you can share somebody else’s post on a topic that you’re either experienced or passionate about. Or that you know, “Hey, this was a great conversation that so-and-so had on this podcast.” Or maybe somebody just does a general post, a couple of paragraphs on an experience they had. You could highlight that by sharing it out and saying, “Really good insights here.” (31:32): Something that I have always noticed that people often overlook, you don’t have to tell the whole story. You don’t have to be the single authority. But it definitely helps when you share somebody else’s content with one or two lines that include your own insights. And especially if you think it’s something that most people miss. Just get other people thinking by seeing your post. That’s the best way to get involved, not just be a content consumer. But at least even if you don’t want to post a comment on somebody else’s post and be part of the big string, you can send it out to your connections and add those comments and that additional insight. It’s really, really helpful and people will pay attention to your posts more. (32:21): I see a lot of people, they just hit share and they don’t add any text to it or any of their own individualized thoughts. That’s not the worst thing in the world, but you just asked me how people can contribute in the most easiest way. That’s it. Find content you like, share it, promote it, and add just one little piece of the pie that is unique to how you see that same topic when you share it. That is two minutes of your time. Jim (32:50): I love that, Justin. I’m guilty, as you’re saying that, often, I will say, “Let me reshare.” And I’ll make a comment because I really like this and I just want to add a little something. Or, “Oh, I’ve seen maybe from a different perspective.” But I’m also guilty of the, “I’ll just reshare it because I like it.” But just that extra one or two minutes, that extra thought, it increases the dialogue. Not just that you’re having more words exchanged, but the quality of that dialogue. And the exchange and the connections that are made are definitely elevated when you have that little extra insight and everybody’s contributing. Again, I know I mentioned the collaborative articles. I think that’s the idea with LinkedIn doing these collaborative articles where, “Hey, let’s be working together and everyone adding their perspective, their experience to the conversation.” Justin (33:31): Yeah, that’s an interesting feature that they’re putting together. And they’re leveraging some AI on that. But that is the whole point is, how do we pull all those different voices and tell a complete story without asking a lot of people’s time? Jim (33:44): Sure, yep. So you’ve hit on a lot of things, and I love everything that you’ve shared. I feel like we could talk for another hour. But we like to give the opportunity for our guests just to share any overarching leadership lesson. It could be specifically related to healthcare, or just a life lesson that you’ve learned through your experiences, through the podcasting, through the Regional VP of Sales and Operations. Any life lesson, leadership lesson, that you’ve learned through your experience, or that you’d like to pass on to our audience that you could leave us with? Justin (34:16): I don’t know if this is really a big AHA lesson, and I might give you two, but a lot of times people are worried about elevating the people that work for them or that they’re mentoring. And I just think, time and time again, it pays huge dividends to elevate those that are under you. They’re never going to replace you. You’re just going to become more valuable. And you never know where they’re going to go in their career. So I feel like in leadership, it’s just promote, promote, promote, and develop the people that are around you. You never know when you’re going to need them. So, sometimes, there’s just that hesitancy. I think all the great leaders are never worried about being replaced. And, sometimes, on the sales side, that can be adding staff to the team, or maybe it’s you’re adding a CRM, and so you know all of the functions of your role are now going to be documented. And you’re like, “Oh, that could make it easier for them to bring somebody else in.” (35:19): I think, ultimately, you have to look at what do you want for your career. If you’re building that, and you’re making it so that the organization is healthier and more viable, should something happen to you, whether you want to leave or not, could be health, you’re going to be bringing a lot more to the table no matter where you land professionally. And that story is exactly what people want to hear. You’re never going to have a shortage of career opportunities if you approach it that way. You just won’t. So I think that’s a common amongst really excellent leaders. That servant leadership mentality I think is really important. (35:58): I think another one I’ll say is, just don’t ever chase the money. And I think one of the great transformations of healthcare is value-based purchasing, for that reason. For the longest time, we went after line items savings. And we just chased the money, as it were. But we didn’t really build necessarily like, did we look at utilization? Did we look at ways to optimize how we were utilizing products? Did we look at innovative operational improvements? And I think now that… Or do we look at the value that’s being added in terms of support? Can we do more initiatives this year in our supply chain? Because this particular partner is going to do the heavy lifting, so I can still do this other one. So, yeah, our savings opportunity might be 20% less with this opportunity. But I can do one that’s going to make that and more because they’re bringing so many resources to the table. Time is of the essence. (37:00): So thinking about things that way too. And I think people are looking for a lot more from their vendor partners because of the staffing crisis, so looking at things through that lens. But chasing the money, I think, will almost always leave you somewhat dissatisfied. So align your organizational strategies with your professional goals. As long as it’s not simply money, you’ll win every single time. Jim (37:27): I love it, Justin. Well said, all across the board. I appreciate that perspective and just sharing that with our audience. Before I close out here- Justin (37:35): Oh, I know where you’re going. Jim (37:37): I’m going to ask for a finals prediction. I don’t know if we can assume Dallas is going to win. I think that’s tonight. If we assume Boston versus Dallas or, go ahead, give me your prediction? We can cut it out if it ends up not being true. Go ahead. Justin (37:47): Let me say this first. I, since the very beginning of the season, was hoping for a Minnesota-Boston Celtics finals. That’s what I was rooting for. I feel for the city of Minneapolis and all of Minnesota, because the reason that the Celtics won the championship back in ’08 is because you traded Kevin Garnett to us. And I just thought, “Oh, that would be a really cool finals.” And if Minnesota wasn’t playing the Celtics, I’d be rooting for the T-wolves. I doubt they’re going to make the big comeback here. It’s certainly not over, but you got to pretty much put your money on Dallas at this point. With Dallas heading to the finals, I’m going to go with Celtics and six. I think Al Horford has really kept himself rested. Jim (38:32): I like him. Justin (38:33): He’s doing excellent. Yeah, he’s just the consummate professional. Everything I just said about leadership, he embodies that for the Boston Celtics. There’s no doubt. I think the series could go seven if they don’t get a lot from Porzingis. He’ll be coming back from injury hopefully, but he hasn’t played in over a month. And so I’m going to go with Boston because they got two excellent perimeter defenders. Jaylen Brown is crazy good in the spotlight, and Jayson Tatum is an underrated superstar somehow. And, yeah, I think we get banner 18. Jim (39:07): All right, well, you’ve heard it here first, Boston in six. Thank you, Justin, thank you for being on the show today. Thank you to our listeners who spent time with us. If you have any questions about VIE Healthcare Consulting, a SpendMend company, or if you want to reach out to me, Justin’s on LinkedIn, find us on LinkedIn, follow us. We at SpendMend love helping hospital leaders uncover financial leakage and improve the patient experience. And we’re hoping that today’s episode gave you some new insights to consider and use in your career and your own healthcare organization. Justin, for everything you shared, thank you so much for being with us today. Justin (39:40): Jim, my pleasure. Thanks for having me on. And let’s do it again. Jim (39:44): Awesome. Speaker (39:46): Thanks for listening to the Healthcare Leadership Experience podcast. We hope you’ve enjoyed this episode. If you’re interested in learning new strategies, best practices, and ideas to utilize in your career and healthcare organization, check out our website at thehealthcareleadershipexperience.com. And oh yeah, don’t forget to rate and review us. And be sure to join Lisa and Jim next time on the Healthcare Leadership Experience podcast. Thanks again for listening.